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Offensive adjustments could make Lions' line better
by Tom Kowalski
Saturday September 06, 2008, 12:15 AM
Offensive coordinator Jim Colleto's emphasis on the run should help the Lions' offensive line protect quarterback Jon Kitna better.ALLEN PARK -- There are only two units in the Detroit Lions' starting lineup that weren't affected by offseason personnel changes -- the quarterback and the offensive line.
While Jon Kitna has gone unchallenged as the starting quarterback, several changes were expected in the offensive line, but none of them have developed.
Veteran George Foster has practiced all week in the starting right tackle role, which means first-round draft pick Gosder Cherilus, the 17th overall pick, likely will start the season on the bench.
While it appears Stephen Peterman has won the right guard position, the Lions will head into Sunday's regular-season opener against the Atlanta Falcons with the same offensive line they had last season.
The Lions had one of the worst running attacks in the league and gave up 54 sacks last year. With the same guys back in the starting lineup, why should anyone expect them to be better?
"I don't know -- because you'd have to put a gun to my head to say we were bad last year," Foster said, echoing a belief among many of Detroit's linemen. "I think we have a better grasp for what we're doing and we'll be better prepared on Sunday."
The issue is whether there will be a difference between last year's pass-happy attack -- which left both tackles on an island with little or no help -- and this year's more balanced philosophy.
The Lions will throw quicker passes and quarterback Jon Kitna, who took a lot of seven-step drops last year, will move in the pocket this season so defenders can't draw an easy read on him.
"I know this -- the coaches are putting us in position to succeed," left tackle Jeff Backus said. "It's the emphasis on the running game, the play-action pass, and then, as far as pure passing downs, everything's geared around what's conducive to being successful for our offense. It's not putting anybody on an island.
"Offensive coordinator (Jim) Colletto, being an offensive line coach, he knows what we go through. He has really designed this thing to put everybody in the best position to succeed."
Foster said in the old system, the pressure on the tackles was immense because their pass protection mistakes were magnified.
"You're isolated," Foster said. "We were put in that position and we dealt with it the best way we could. Sometimes we were successful and sometimes we weren't. I don't think anybody else in the league was put in those types of situations, but that's the system we were in. But this is the NFL and you have to be professional."
Peterman said there are two other factors that will help the Lions: Colletto is returning, and so are the linemen.
"It's another year of playing together and another year with the same coach. It's good that we didn't have to change coaches. Some of the plays are the same, but it's more of a zone scheme. Last year, we basically did everything up front," Peterman said.
Colletto also made a change in reducing the amount of running plays the Lions would have. Instead of doing a lot of things just OK, Colletto would prefer to do fewer things at a high level.
"That's what Jim said, he wanted to simplify so we did things great," Peterman said. "He doesn't want us to go weeks without running plays. Every week, we're going to have our base plays. We've still got to block it, don't get me wrong, but I think it'll help us out a lot more."
"The more you play together, that lends itself to playing better," said quarterback Jon Kitna, adding it wasn't just the offensive line. "Again, like I said, the last two years we've put ourselves in some bad situations, and I don't know of any offensive line that's going to be successful in this league when you're down 21 points. That's not good.
"It's a collective effort. We have to be better, period, as a football team."
Foster comment "I don't know -- because you'd have to put a gun to my head to say we were bad last year"
Was he playing on the Lions?
We'll see this Sunday in Atlanta...But if this group couldn't get it done last year; why so much faith in them this year.
Cant wait to see how these guys play on Sunday. I think they could upgrade over Peterman though.
hey guys....checkout NFL Playbook...they are about to talk about the lions/falcons...
sterling sharpe, brian billick
I saw that show earlier and to tell you the truth the film they had on the Falcon's running game was impressive. WE ARE NOT to underestimate this team, even though they have rookies playing on it and we are expected to win. I just hope our players don't buy into that and go out no matter who it is an knock their freaking heads off!
GO LIONS
There is an obvious truth here, Mike Martz was a genious and still is, but teams adjusted amd Mike was to cocky to adjust. The defense you face today is much faster, especially the front 4 rushers, which means he should have sped his offence up, so there is 2 words, which works for him, his offwncw, and the west coast offence: HAS BEEN
So, what was the big change that affected the receiving core? Johnson and Williams are still starting, correct?
CURTIS LOFTON!
i can not wait to see this kid play... i thought on draft day we blew it by not drafting him. we could have taken him over gosder or traded back a 2nd time for an extra 3-4 round pick.
i have to echo TK... because facts are facts. our top two draft picks won't help us right away, and that is a problem. especially considering the lack of overall talent we have. i really do believe in this team this year and i am counting the seconds till SUNDAY BABY!!! I do believe Gosder will be running folks over soon! I like the guy, he seems like he really has a good attitude.
GO LIONS! GO CALVIN!!!
AAAWWWWWOOOOOOOOOO!
vsledge2:
I think Foster meant that you would have to put a gun to his head to say that they were as good as "bad" - meaning they were much worse than bad.
no. he means that it was the scheme that was bad, not the players playing it.
The QB had to hold the ball for a full second longer than any other offense, and there were no TEs or FBs to help block.
Thats what he means by 'out on an island'. There is no one to help you block.
With Coletto's 2 TE and FB sets, you'll see more protection for Kitna, and hopefully smarter decisions.
The vast majority of all rookies, probably something on the order of 95% of them, EVEN IF THEY START FROM THE OPENING SNAP, put teams in a position of weakness because of their lack of experience.
We are in a spot where we have a guy who started in a successful zone blocking scheme in Denver - Foster - to be steady until Gosder is ready. Nobody has said Gosder is failing to play well, he just hasn't earned the starting spot yet. Fine be me.
In Lenon, who did give up some bad plays last year, we have a guy who also was a tackling machine and has lots of experience in the defense. Dizon is slow to learn the difficult spot, and that's to be expected. If we had Boss Bailey or someone else starting at MLB, that's when I'd yap to throw the rookie in. As it is, we can ease him into the lineup.
Seriously, all this "the rookies aren't starting, wah" stuff is misguided and shortsighted given our situation.
If Foster and Lenon fall flat on their faces in this year's edition of the Detroit Lions, well, then, we are in trouble. That remains to be seen, and we'll start to find out on Sunday.
As for the scheme, well, you still have to have the talent to make it work.
But Foster is right, nobody else in this league plays a scheme like Mike Martz's. Nobody is as exacting on every offensive position to do well in their own area with little help.
We've seen his offense work like magic with the right pieces in St. Louis, but once his talent started to flag on the OL, everything was not so peachy keen.
I really like what Colletto wants to do with this offense, as it keeps all the things the guys know (the plays, the cadences, etc.) - but it puts them in a better position to succeed with lesser talent on the OL. Do you think the Bucs OL is great? Hell no, but they were far more efficient and consistent since they went more conservative and put the players in position to succceed.
Maybe it doesn't work, and then we'll be looking at a team just not talented or smart enough to get it done. More and better players are needed if we fail in this setup.
Waaaaah....I had to block people all by myself last year....gimme a break.
More of these style of articles Mr Killer! less sensationalism!
Go Lions
Can't wait untill Sunday!!!! While it would be a mistake for the Lion's to take any team in this league lightly, I'm glad that the first few games of the season seem winnable. It's gonna take a few weeks for things to really start clicking, especially with the OL and nothing would be worse than getting off to a slow start so that the "same old loser Lions" mentality would be allowed to creep into the player's heads (or the fan's for that matter). This is going to be an exciting season to watch and see if the impact Rod has made on this team is real or just more of the same.
GO LIONS
8-8 in '08 and Finally a Foundation For the Future
I agree MHip! God forbid you have to block somebody on your own? Wow! This is the team everyone is so excited about!
3-13. Maybe 5-11.
Good morning Houseman,
woke up early in SoCal just to read your latest dribble.
So the OL should be better. How could it be worse? Maybe the NFL will penalize like the NHL and allow only 4 OL to start. Wouldn't make much of a differencee with this group.
Glad we're committed to the running game this season. Too bad we didn't have Thomas to lead the way instead Gosdick or what's his name...the #1 draftee who's not good enough to start for this ragtag team.
And do you think Berry will every be fired. He'd have to take his clothes off and go through driveins. Oh, that's already been done.
Until Loins/Lions make stronger use of their draft picks and can sign a few productive free agents we'll have to wait for Willie Sr to kick off (and maybe his stupid son who proclaims every three years "we're on our way") to restore the roar.
Are you enjoying your free Ford vehicle?
Well, this has all been rehashed, not to mention "hashed" (is that a word?) and Heaven knows I've had my say as to my feelings on blaming the poor performance of the O-line completely on the O.C.
Of all the comments in the article, I think Kitna's are the best in referencing being down by a lot early, for reasons that are not entirely clear to me, no one publicly from the team nor many fans since last season ever wanted to mention-even in passing-that being down early and/or giving up TDs on 3-5 straight possessions might-just might-have had an effect on the playcalling.
In other words, to buy into what most of the Lions from last year are selling for this year, I've got to believe the playcalling last year affected EVERY other aspect of the team (negatively, of course), but NOTHING from any other aspect of the team negatively affected the playcalling.
Silliness, IMO.
My point is not in having that argument again, but I'm one who believes that a vital step in solving any problem is first admitting that you have one. These adjustments will not make the o-line "better", but merely limit its exposure and weaknesses. Maybe I'm nit picking, but there is a difference to me.
If I'm running a business and I have an employee on screws up a high percentage of accounts I give him/her, I could a) find someone to do a better job or b) limit the number of accounts I give him plus pull someone else from their responsibilities to give this employee "help" so he won't be out there on an "island".
This will, of course, limit the number of mistakes this employee makes-in theory- but it does not, IMO, make him a "better" employee. The real question is whether it will affect the overall business productivity.
My analogy to the Lions is that they have obviously chosen option b and we'll see if it works this year. It might, though I think fans who buy into the impending dominance of the running game b/c "if we do it enough we'll become great at it just b/c we're doing it so much!" theory will be somewhat disappointed.
The S.D. Chargers, for ex., don't have a great running game b/c they run so much, they run so much b/c they have a great running game. Take LT out of the backfield and put in T. Bell, give them a half-a** run blocking o-line and a bottom ranked D, and you'll be shocked at how much Rivers is throwing the ball.
I think the o-line is better this year b/c of better depth, largely in the form of Cherilus and, not to be hateful, but not having Blaine Saipia play at RT for long stretches will reduce the number of sacks substantially in and of itself. Foster seems to be improved as well. Having said that, no one will confuse this line with the Pats anytime soon.
I think the best ways to improve our run game is to not get down so big so quickly on the road as much as we did last year. But, make no mistake, throwing the ball is what we do best and, if we are going to take the next step in improving and become a winning/play-off team, it will be b/c our passing game evolves into its potential, which is to be one of the 2 or 3 best in the NFL b/c of our WRs. There is nothing wrong with that and we can't forget that.
I've been watching the NFL long enough to see many different types/versions/theories of offense and defense both win big and lose big. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat, so to speak. But, one thing I've never seen and don't ever expect to see is a team win big specifically because they DE-emphasize what they do best, as if that is to blame totally for things they don't do as well. I hope we don't fall into this trap.
Just my two cents.
So - the coaches are willing to adjust the type of plays and the style of offense to the talent on hand. This as opposed to imposing a system that requires different types of players than are on the Lions, and not adjusting plays to accommodate this fact. This to me is the nut of why the Lions will be better, and my real issue with Mad Mike.
The real question though is, "will they be good?" I still think they are a good linebacker and a good offensive lineman or two away. Based on their draft, so do they. The rooks? I have more hope for Gosder than Dizon, but they did seem to hit on the rest of their draft, so I will give them until mid-season before I give up on those two. I am intrigued by the young d-linemen though. Interesting to see if they will play as well now that it all counts in the regular season.
I do think they are still a year away, but another draft like this one, with good additions from top to bottom of the rookie class, would sure move them a long way forward. Stanton's an interesting X-factor too...
You cant change everything up every couple of years and expect to be consistent, Their on the right track, the wins are starting to come.
[5 years]. ITS Happening, I know a lot of you want it year one, The lions will never have that kind of luck. Their going to haft to take their time, and build a winner. GO LIONSSS, 7 come 11
Block out the SUN . Search And Destroy.
If rookies are not starting I woundn't consider that a problem, it could also mean that the team has improved, in preseason I noticed that Alama-Francis was playing much better, as was Cody, also lenon and Alexander were more decisive, I wouldn't use the Atanta game to gage the whole season, the old saying "on any given Sunday" still stands, I remember some coach saying twenty some years ago, that no team is good enough to win by 20 points or bad enough to lose by 20, for that to happen thete has to a lot of luck involved, the zone blocking takes a bit of time, to be effective, look at the raiders last year when they switched to ZB, it took them about five games to get going, and Fargas gained over a 1000 yards, with no passing game, and a O-line worse then ours.
Lion cornbread is hard to find in central Ohio but I choose to look at the O line being intact from last year as a positive. Look at the good offenses in the league. The common denominator is consistency in people and in scheme.
the lions change coordinators and philosophy every flippin' year. The Colts, Pats, Cowboys, they don't. Not saying the Leos are on par with those teams but maintaining people and scheme in the trenches has to be better than constant change.
We'll find out tomorrow if our boys are heading in the right direction.
Did someone say Brandon Albert? Are you talking about the same Brandon Albert drafted by KC being converted to tackle from guard who has been injured with a foot sprain and missed the entire preseason but now won't be starting and will be nursing a nagging foot injury that has occurred before? Is that the same Brandon Albert you were inquiring about?
I too don't see the big deal about rookies not starting. Actually it's refreshing that they have to earn their time. Bottom line if they upped the level of competition pushing the incumbent harder and making the incumbent work harder and improve their play, it's not a bad thing. You've developed depth and you've improved the team. Now if the rookies are complete busts like Andre Ware or "eating everything in sight" Aaron Gibson, you have a problem. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
The impression I get from most of the sports media is that the Lions will fail like they’ve always failed; it’s just a matter of how soon. Some sports writers, who write for m-live, gulped the kool-aid a couple of years ago, when the walk couldn’t match the talk, and now he doesn’t want to drink to soon.
Reading the comments from the fans, it appears we either think they’re going to be pretty good or pretty bad for various reasons.
My opinion: If Marinelli is as solid of a head coach as his supporters claim, then the Lions are on there way to finally being a successful team. If it’s smoke and mirrors then we are back to HOPING the Lions can hold on for a win.
When a new manager takes over, regardless of the endeavor, whether it is business, sports, or whatever, the team takes on the attributes of the manager because the manager will continue to add his type of people.
As frustrating as it is at times, as fans, we love our Lions even when the rest of the NFL usually has them marked as an easy win!
The defense is going to be much better than last year!
The offense is going to be able to move the ball!
If special teams can play halfway decent and not put the team in impossible situations it could be a very good year for a change.
Because of the attributes Marinelli has, the laughing stock Lions are about to become a more respected team.
fandetsports: I tend to agree with you. This constant changing of philosophies and coaches will never produce a winner, IMO. You need consistency to produce a winner. I use the analogy of the Red Wings. I think it was in the 80's, they used to change head coaches, like you change underwear, and were actually quite pathetic. It wasn't until they got Jacques Demers(sp) that the Wings started to develop some consistency, in philosophy and coaching. Going from Morningweg to Mariucci to Marinelli every two years ensured the Lions would struggle. Hopefully the Lions will keep Marinelli and build from there.
Yet, on the other hand, the Lions have been very consistent, with their GM. Who is the embodiment of inconsistency.
It's the begining of the season and everyone is undefeated. GO LIONS! I saw their last championship game when i was 8 years old. I've lived and died every sunday since, so after all these years, if they don't get off to a good start this year, at least i'll get my leaves raked and my deck stained before the snow flies. I sure hope it doesn't come to that, it would spoil my wife kinda like the tigers did this year.
Something you folks seem to forget the past or perhaps it is just the lack of football knowledge that often appears here. If folks look back at any Mike Martz based offense they will see a team that is near the top of the league in sacks allowed. This includes the Ram's superbowl teams. With offense lines that include probowl tackles such as Orlando Pace.
I don't think I've ever seen a beat writer that knows less about anything let alone the team he covers then "Killer" Kowlaski.
I still laugh at this idiot and his prediction that the Lions would win 20 games in the first two years of Marinelli's head coaching career.
Good call.
They won 10 LOL.
In fact they are 31-81 in the Millen era so saying they would win 20 games in those two seasons shows what a bonehead know nothing Kowlalksi really is.
Bad team and bad organization with even worse beat writers.
Pathetic.
ltimesbfan
You are 1 year older than me. Here is a link to the radio version of that Championship game.
losing to atlanta is not an option. get it done coach rod. speak softly and carry a big defense. make sure calvin gets his catches in front of friends & family.
and no red flags this year unless you are sure the refs goofed it up.
GO Lions. as the mighty wize & benevolent chief would say - lions great in the playoffs & beyond.
First off - I will be the first to say if the Lions don't get to at least 8-8-it will be another lost season. They have a vet at qb, 2 stud WRs, some potential at rb, and TEs up the a**.
By all accounts they are extremely fast defensively.
That being said, I love the philosophy of Marinelli. He wants hitters and tacklers. He wants players with attitude. May Gos was not the most talented but combined with his attitude he is the kind of player Marinelli wants and believes he can win with.
I believe Marinelli's style will be successful and I believe we will see the beginnings this year.
thanks willy410, If i'd known it wasn't going to happen again for at least 50 years i would have paid closer attention. can you imagin my personal frustration when i was stationed along the minn. n.d. border from 69 - 72 betting with all those vikings fans during the heart of the purple people eaters 11 game winning streak over the lions. we've seen some great players over the years, just not very many good teams.
mac59---You bad mouth albert?
The Chiefs’ practice was closed to reporters Wednesday, but Edwards said Albert “took every rep.” Franklin, who underwent arthroscopic knee surgery two weeks ago, participated only in individual drills.
Albert missed all but four days of the preseason after spraining his foot July 31. Albert admitted he missed valuable time, and he knows he won’t be granted any excuses come Sunday.
“I’m going to have to (be ready),” he said. “I don’t know if I am, but I’m going to have to. We’ll see on Sunday what I can do.”
Edwards took it a step further.
“Doesn’t matter if he’s ready or not,” the coach said. “He’s going to have to play.”
Edwards said backup tackle Herb Taylor would be ready if Albert needs relief. Edwards said it was encouraging to see Albert practice Wednesday, and for now the Chiefs are bringing their first offensive draft pick along slowly.
“If he needs to be monitored and he needs to come out, we’ll get him out,” Edwards said. “Sometimes he might look bad, and that’s part of it, too.”from the kc star.........................
No dumb games,he's a 1st rounder now go earn your paycheck.The trade-down was of almost zero gain and based on two guys they passed on [albert,otah] they actually regressed.You got to know when to hold em' and know when to fold em'
I really love the stanton pick,hey you don't suppose that a good free agent qb like a simms would ever become available so you could get full use out of your 2nd rd pick from day 1 do ya? The lions might as well trade ALL their 2nd rders for seasoned veterans with their draft record in the 2nd rd....
LOL...quote of the year !! ""I don't know -- because you'd have to put a gun to my head to say we were bad last year," Foster said"
If it wasn't illegal....i'd do it
wrfetish:
Keep in mind that the same idiots who are bad-mouthing Brandon Albert also think that drafting Drew Stanton with the 45th overall pick was a stroke of genius.
If Brandon Albert turns out to be a solid left tackle in this league (as many have predicted), the Cherilus pick will be a travesty.
I hope you end up being wrong about Albert for the sake of the Lions, but I have a strong suspicion you're going to end up being right...
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• Lions sign S Stuart Schweigert 11/19/2008, 8:13 p.m. EST
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• Marinelli keeps focus despite Lions' 0-10 record 11/17/2008, 4:59 p.m. EST
