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Red Wings not amused by disallowed goal
by Ansar Khan
Thursday May 15, 2008, 1:19 AM
Detroit coach Mike Babcock tries to make his point with referee Kelly Sutherland after an apparent Detroit second-period goal was disallowed against Dallas on Wednesday.DALLAS -- Detroit Red Wings coach Mike Babcock believes in lifelong learning. On Wednesday, his team learned something new: A goal can be disallowed because a player's rear end is hanging over the crease, even if his skates aren't in the blue paint.
"I've never heard of a goal being disallowed because your (rear) was in the crease," Detroit goaltender Chris Osgood said. "If that was (called on an opponent) against me, I'd laugh."
Babcock was anything but amused after an apparent goal by Pavel Datsyuk at 7:34 of the second period Wednesday was disallowed by referee Kelly Sutherland, who ruled that Tomas Holmstrom's backside was hanging over the crease.
"The guy's out of the paint. That's a reputation call totally," Babcock said, following his club's 3-1 loss to Dallas in Game 4 of the Western Conference finals. "It's disappointing. But the way I look at it is this: There's lots that goes on on the ice. Some things go wrong and you miss it. Just don't make stuff up, that's all."
Referees are clearly keeping a closer eye on Holmstrom after he appeared to be in Stars goalie Marty Turco's head the first two games of the series.
"They (opponents) prepare the referees," Babcock said. "So they tell them about guys so that they're watching for stuff. Well, watch for it, but it's got to happen. You can't dream it up."
Asked if his reputation led to the call, Holmstrom said, "Who knows. I don't want to go there."
"It doesn't matter how much you (complain) to the ref, they're not going to make a different call," Holmstrom said. "On this call I was outside the crease, clearly."
Red Wings captain Nicklas Lidstrom said he never heard of the rule, and added, "They should be able to go upstairs (for a review) to get a better ruling because it's a crucial goal."
"I don't think it is a rule, but that's that," Henrik Zetterberg said.
Darren McCarty said the officials got it right, however.
"It's in the rules," McCarty said. "The rule says the goalie's got to be able to make the play and it's the referee's discretion. Whether you agree with it or not, that's the call and you have to bounce back from there. ... It wasn't because that goal was disallowed that we didn't win."
Dan Cleary said his team's net-front men won't be deterred by this call.
"We just have to keep going back in front of the net, not shy away and hopefully the ref makes the right call the next time," Cleary said.
Franzen can ride the bike
Johan Franzen (concussion-like symptoms) has been cleared to resume off-ice workouts.
"He's been given the green light, not to do full workouts, but he can ride the bike and do some things," general manager Ken Holland said. "We're monitoring the headaches. He's been cleared to take a step forward."
Teammate Niklas Kronwall said Franzen is feeling better but still frustrated about not being able to play and not knowing exactly what caused this problem, which has been affecting him since the last round against Colorado.
"I asked him, 'When do you think it happened?' " Kronwall said. "He's got no idea. He's never a guy who's going to complain. You have guys that, in his mind, are worse (injured) than he was. He felt he had a little headache, so what? I'm happy he finally said something."
Goalie prospect signs
The Red Wings have signed Swedish goaltender Daniel Larsson to a two-year entry-level contract. He is expected to play in Grand Rapids (AHL) next season.
"He was voted the best goalie in the Swedish Elite League," Holland said. "He's got real good feet, good glove. He's a good prospect."
Detroit selected Larsson with its fourth pick in the 2006 entry draft (92nd overall, third round).
Assistant GM Jim Nill is still working on getting forward Dick Axelsson (62nd overall, 2006) and defenseman Logan Pyett (212th overall, 2006) signed by June 1, before the Red Wings lose their rights. Holland said the club is also trying to sign Siarhei Kolasau (151st overall, 2004) but might have another year to do it because of the NHL's lack of a transfer agreement with the IIHF.
Outdoor game not finalized
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said Wednesday that the league is still hoping to stage an outdoor game next season. New York's Yankee Stadium is a possible venue, but there are some issues.
"There is some construction going on, on and about the Yankee Stadium area, which may impact us," Bettman said. "There are some winterization issues, because it is an older stadium. I don't know whether or not they can be resolved."
He mentioned as possibilities, Chicago, Boston, Denver and State College, Pa., where there has been talk of the Penguins and Flyers playing at Beaver Stadium before more than 100,000 fans.
Earlier this season, Detroit defenseman Chris Chelios said he was told by his contacts in the NHL Players Association that the Red Wings and New York Rangers would play in Yankee Stadium next season, in the final event at the hallowed ballpark before it is demolished.
Bad call.....Koharski last year playoffs against the ducks bad....but now they can close out the series at home.
But what about Dallass' first goal AFTER the Wings disallowed goal? The overhead replay, (shown 4 times) CLEARLY showed the Dalass players stick was interfering with OZ AND skate in the crease as that shot went into Ozzy. It bounced off and he tipped in in as he was STILL in the crease! VS. showed it four times, and even the announcer tried to squelch any comment, saying; "Every goal is reviewed by the league, so.......that one needs no particular look..... they play on." --- I mean, come on, just watch his stick AS THE SHOT COMES TO OZZY, the guy clearly interfered and his skates WERE inside the blue area!
Just whatever, ya know? This is just another way for them (League) to give the series a little shock and "life" for a couple more days. Dalass gets 2 whole days off to rest up. Watch out for the strange calls the first period saturday afternoon!
BabyDropper:
My thoughts exactly. If you have to give the goalie room to make the save, then that particular play was a clear violation because the guys stick was interfering with Ozzie and his skates were in the crease before the shot came. Oh well...Wings close it out at home.
I was thinking the same thing. I just thought that maybe I just didn't know what the rule is. On the Dallas goal the player was clearly in the crease way before the puck. Not even close. His stick, his body, his skates, even his ass. What is the rule on that? Help me understand.
NHL wants the revenue guys. They're looking at two teams (Pitt and Detroit) that are slicing though their opponents like a hot knife through butter. I don't think there is "fixing" per say, but it's apparent that they are telling the refs before the game to call certain things but allow others in order to be favorable to the underdog's style of play. For example, Dallas is clearly obstructing on every breakout. Not necessarily knocking a player down (but apparently that's the only way they will call it) but doing just enough to slow down the rush. Clearly a penalty but not being called.
The NHL would LOVE every series to go to 7 games. More is always better when it comes to $$$ and the Wings and Penguins are not living up to their end of the bargain. The Pens series have gone 4 - 0, 4 - 1, and looking like 4 - 0 again. The Wings have gone 4 - 2, 4 - 0, and were on the verge of another 4 - 0 sweep before last night's debacle. That's a total of 13 games for the Pens and 14 for the Wings. I think the NHL was hoping more for at least 18 a piece.
The NHL would LOVE every series to go to 7 games. More is always better when it comes to $$$ and the Wings and Penguins are not living up to their end of the bargain. The Pens series have gone 4 - 0, 4 - 1, and looking like 4 - 0 again. The Wings have gone 4 - 2, 4 - 0, and were on the verge of another 4 - 0 sweep before last night's debacle. That's a total of 13 games for the Pens and 14 for the Wings. I think the NHL was hoping more for at least 18 a piece.
BINGO!!
Anyone else see all the commissioners smiling after the game?? They are trying to draw fans and get hockey back on the sports map. Especially from all the little teams who don't have major fan bases like Detroit and Pitt. It comes down to $$ plain and simple
You all are nuts. There is no conspiracy. If anything, the NHL wants the Wings/Pens in the finals for best tv ratings in 8 years, at least.
Skate can be in the crease. This is not 1999. There was no interference on that play. They were reviewing it to see if the puck was kicked in. The dude was well off to the side of Ozzie, and it clearly went off his foot but wasn't kicked in.
Be happy they lost. They deserved to lose, maybe even needed it to refocus. It gives Franzen more time to heal. They need Franzen to check Malkin. Stupid NHL was trying for a Tuesday start to the finals. Franzen likely wouldn't have been ready.
Plus this loss gives the Wings a weekend home game 2 weeks in a row if both teams close it out. It's good for the city, too. And refs won't be so quick to whistle Homer next time either. This was a blessing.
Could it be just maybe could it be that one half of the MORON refs loose thier jobs at the end of each series which may cause them to try prolong series any way they can. I suppose they recieve quite a nice paycheck for each post season game they ref.
feedjake12,
I wasn't trying to say there was a conspiracy, but it's getting almost as bad as the NBA. There are rules in the NHL and the rules (especially game 4) are being bent in favor of the underdog.
Sure the NHL would love Pittsburgh and Detroit. But they would also love them getting there playing 6 - 7 games series along the way. Look, Detroit's obviously the better team, as is Pittsburgh to Philly. They should both move on. But the NHL and refs can call or put focus on parts of the game that even things out a little bit.
How many times has Morrow left his feet? How many charging penalties have been called? How many times has a team broke out and been slowed up by a slight grab or hook? Like just about every time. The only time they're calling it is when the player is actually knocked down. It's still a penalty regardless. Granted, it's still better than it has been in the past where the NHL clearly was rewarding goon hockey but still. A penalty is a penalty and should be called as such. Or not called as in the Homer goal.
$$$ that's the same thing I thought as I was listening to the radio. plus, they glossed over both of those goals - waived off and the play went on as tho no-big-deal. help the series continue, that's okay, bring it back to Detroit ----- hockeytown is R E A D Y!
Quite whining about the refs. Home team almost always gets the calls. That ticky-tack obstruction hasn't been called for 2 years. Chelios does it every time, too, because he can't keep up with the speed of today's game. Yes, it is supposed to be a penalty, but no one is calling it for either side. They didn't even call it in the regular season.
Stars complain Kronwall leaves his feet too -- sometimes he does. It's no big deal. The series didn't just get tied. It's 3-1 and all but over. Wings needed to lose. They haven't played well defensively for 3 games now. Get over it. They will refocus now and play a tighter checking game.
I'm with fudog on this one. I saw what you saw. The refereeing in Dallas was a joke for sure.
I think Jake has a point; however, that the Wings needed a loss to get it out of the way. The pressure of tring to get 11-12 wins in a row is tremendous. Now they can focus, and HOPEFULL hold another Stanley Cup parade in Detroit!!!
GOWINGS!!!
I think fudog2 is correct. ABSOLUTELY. Do you think the NHL is hurtin' for money? YES. Why do you think they're on Vs. instead of a network that can broadcast to a wider fan base? Because they were seriously strapped for money when they made the TV deal. Less people are watching the games, so they naturally want MORE games to make up for it. And what better way to stretch on a series than to have the refs tilt the ice in favor of the team that is down?
But give Dallas credit too because that was the best game they've played in this series.
feedjake,
I'm not complaining about the refs. If they call the game the same, so be it. But they can still call a game that favors one style over another. That's where they can tilt a game one way or the other. The better team should still win but they can make the game much tighter without seemingly biased.
I also agree that the loss should help them refocus. They had been cruising for much too long now. A little adversity helps tighten things up for sure. Looking forward to a dominating performance on Saturday (fingers X'd).
feedjake12,
The subject of this forum is a bad call from an official. So to tell someone to quit whining about the officials is like telling everybody in here no to post at all. I dont see any "whining" anyways. I see people frustrated at bad calls and no-calls. That is why we are here to show our opinions on the call. Whiners make excuses. In this case, the refs made them.
The fact is, it was a bad call that appeared to turn the game around. They then scored on us when it appeared that their player was in our crease while a stick was in Ozzies gut before the puck got there.
Not a huge deal. We were up 3-0. We had ourselves quite a cusion. We'll do it at home in 5. Just needed to be shown that we're not invincible.
everyone so far has had all the same thoughts as myself... dissallowed goal was crap, for sure. Even the penalty calls were just awfull, makes you wonder how much the networks want these series to go just one game further... but I wont go there.
The first goal dallas got made me mad, but come to figure out... it bounced off of osgood first, so at that point a player can be in the crease.
But that other goal that was nullified in the 3rd I believe, the one that you could CLEARLY see moving underneath turco's leg as he went into the goal, ugg.
Its freaking 2008, they have the REVIEW option for a reason.
fudog, i completely understand and agree with your point about refs being able to call a game to help one teams style over another. Must I remind everyone of the 2004 Calgary series? I couldn't tell if I was watching a hockey game or wrestling match, they let Calgary interfere nonstop and never made the calls, and it just shut the Wings down.
As I will agree the refs let a lot of stuff go, the Wings have a good enough team they could overcome that. I really do believe if that first goal stood, the Wings would have ended up with the win. Outcomes should NOT be a direct result of the officials making bad calls. I do think they should be able to review stuff like that, but unfortunately you already see enough goalies complaining immediately after goals of interference when there wasn't any, so soon you'd have the officials having to go review practically every goal. I think the referees can make calls like that on the ice, but like Babcock said, "Just don't make stuff up, that's all."
Every replay I saw I didn't see a reason for the goal to be dis-allowed. I mean neither goal should have been disallowed.
McCarty may be right, the rule may say the goalie needs to be allowed to make a save. If they is the case they need to be CONSISTENT in the call. I have seen way to many goals where the "interference" is much more than what happened on the disallowed goal.
With that said, Detroit deserved to lose this game. They may have needed the loss to refocus after a poor performance last night. they flat out got outplayed by Dallas and the bounces I saw all went the Stars way.
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